The whole point of free speech is not to make ideas exempt from criticism but to expose them to it.

Monday, October 25, 2010

The old how old is the earth question

Kevin Woster over at Blogmore has a piece about how he has been asking all the candidates how old the earth is, because earth age is premiere among those issues facing our fair state. I assume he's on a fishing trip trying to bait the conservatives into saying something he thinks is dumb about evolution.

Of course, it's all about evolution and the intelligent designers and he must have figured that someone in the state cared about evolution and intelligent design as it applies to the governor's race.

Of course, only Stephanie had any clue about what the scientists say (4.5 billion years). I'm going with Stephanie on this one...

By the way, did you know that if you had a dollar for every day the earth has existed, (364.25 days x 4.5 billion years x 1 dollar) according to Stephanie, you wouldn't have enough money to pay for Obama's and Pelosi's agenda?

The number: one trillion six hundred thirty-nine billion one hundred twenty five million DOLLARS!

In the Journal today was an insert from Gordon Howie's group asserting that only Christians can be conservatives.

And in the end, as I have predicted, people in the media (Kevin) and people on the extreme right (Howie) apparently wish to make this election about abortion, gay rights, evolution and a literal interpretation of The Bible. I suspect Kevin and Howie have different motives, however.

And, I'll re-assert: It's the economy, stupid.


Troy Jones said...

The question is about the most stupid that can be asked. With six dollars and the answer to this question, I'd go buy a six pack of beer.

If someone answers this irrelevant question, they better have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

And if someone gives a crap about the answer, they better have a good connection of the answer to the deficit and problems of unemployment.

In the meantime, I'll let the theologians and scientists figure out what happened between 6,000 and 4.5 billion years ago. I'm worried about the crap occurring today.

Michael Sanborn said...

They all answered.

Bill Fleming said...

Mike and Troy, obviously neither of you have read "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips.

You should. (Don't's okay... it was written by a Republican.)

You should also recall that the main reason we are broke right now... THE #1 REASON is because an American religious fanatic went after a bunch of Muslim religious fanatics to fight wars we couldn't win Iraq and Afghanistan, costing us thousands of good American lives, tens of thousands maimed and deranged for life, hundreds of thousands of innocent "collateral damage" lives, and trillions, yes TRILLIONS of dollars.

Guys, it matters.

Don't be stupid.

It matters.

Bill Fleming said...

If you don't have time to read Phillips book, at least skim through this. Sound familiar? :

Bill Fleming said...


"United States politics

Political analyst Richard Allen Greene has argued that dispensationalism has had a major influence on the foreign policy of the United States. This influence has included support for the state of Israel.

Political commentator Kevin Phillips points out in his book American Theocracy (2006) how dispensationalists and other fundamentalist Christians, together with the oil lobby, have provided political support for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, without approval of the United Nations."

*amenamo* (no I'm not kidding. That was my "Word Verification." Amazing. "amo" is Latin for love... and "amen", Hebrew for "believe." Believe love.)

Neal said...

It's not a stupid question. It's a great, straight-forward, litmus test. The answer tells you so much about the person. It tells you what the person thinks about science and truth. It tells you what the person considers to be a reliable authority. It tells you something about the person's openmindedness.

A person who believes with any degree of certainty that the Earth is 6000 years old does not believe in science. And that person will not believe anything that doesn't come from, or is corroborated by, the Bible.

I'd just as soon move to Afganistan than have someone like this represent me in government.

Thad Wasson said...


The U.S. did not declare war on Iraq, we went to war to enforce United Nations resolution 1441.

The real cause of trillions of dollars spent on overseas missions and bases has been our involvement in the U.N. End that, the debt slowly will recede.

taco said...

We came from monkeys many billions of years ago and, I think, that fact should be acknowledged by those who seek office.

As for the war on Iraq, well, that has gone as swimmingly as the war on Drugs. End both, along with the federal reserve, and this country may just be able to live within its means.

repete said...

It's a GREAT question... if the atheists of this country (and others) ever get bold enough to be united, we're a majority of our own! Look out Jesus!

Neal, the leaders of Afghanistan are even worse... You'd regret the move even before you got unpacked.

Bill Fleming said...

p.s. Mike, why do you shout on your blog? Is it because you can't find any other way to express yourself persuasively?

It really looks Mickey Mouse. Kind of insulting to the intelligence of the average Forum guest, who, I bet averages a 120+ IQ.

You might want to spend more time on your vocabulary and less on your colored, enlarged hyper-typography. ...unless of course you insist on presenting graphically as a raving lunatic.

In which case, hey, it's your page, go for it.

Neal said...

"and trillions, yes TRILLIONS of dollars."

According to the CBO, we've spent $709 billion in Iraq. Not sure what we've spent in Afghanistan, but it's safe to say we haven't spent "trillions" on these wars.

Bill Fleming said...

Neal, It's trillions just as surely as the Health Care Bill will cost trillions. Plus it was an unfunded mandate.


Bill Fleming said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bill Fleming said...

For Neal:

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond


"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of "might have beens," or what economists call opportunity costs. For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only "what if" worth contemplating. We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly? Would the federal debt be so high? Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

The answer to all four of these questions is probably no. The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

Neal said...

Well, forget what the Congressional Budget Office says. Fleming and Stigltz say trillions, so that's what it must be.

Bill Fleming said...

How much is a life worth, Neal? Start with an extinguished one. Then move on to a ruined one.

I don't give a flying hot damn what the CBO says.

That's not my point.

Michael Sanborn said...

On graphics shouting, Bill...
I'll attribute it to just having fun...Sorry your intelligence was insulted.

Troy Jones said...

Bill, I read Kevin Phillips and Daniel Patrick Moynihan at about the same time in the 1980's. I found one arrogant and full of himself and the other intelligent, honest and probing. I'll never read the boorish Phillips again.

Michael, so they must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Neal, it might be litmus test for you but I find it not even a test at all. I know people who believe in the "new earth" theories and have a grasp of the complexities of the issues facing us today and people who believe as you do and I find them incapable of constructing a cogent thought with any intelligence but instead say idiocy like "we came from monkeys" as a fact when, while less likely, monkeys could have come from us. A fact by definition is "a concept whose truth can be proved." Scientific hypotheses (regardless how widely accepted) are not facts.

Bill Fleming said...

Troy, we didn't "come from monkeys", nor did "monkeys come from us". However, last I checked, the latter is a closer approximation to what scientists think actually happened than the former.

It's a little tough to explain in writing, but if you look at the "family tree" you'll see it right away.

Let's put it this way... not all monkeys were created equal. I'll send you a diagram.

But keep in mind, it's an evolving body of knowledge.

Bill Fleming said...

re: Phillips and Moynihan. So, what does Moynihan have to say about the dispensationalists, Troy?

Troy Jones said...

The Moynihan book I read was about how America stands for its virtues in a world that doesn't value its virtues, stands by its friends who sometimes aren't always perfect, and not get caught up in the politics of the day. I remember the book because it was written both eloquently and intelligently by a very smart and experienced man yet he did so with some humility.

Frankly, I don't even remember what Phillips said or if I finished the book. I remember thinking if he infers one more time anyone who doesn't agree with him is stupid I was going to quit. Kevin Phillips is so stupid he thinks he is always the smartest man in the room.

When I read the subject matter I figured he is still the same condenscending piece of crap. I don't care if I might agree with his thesis or not (I like to read people who see things differently than me).

But to be sure, I read the Washington Post review of the book and it confirmed my suspicions. They mention his reliance on poor sources, his excessive personal views about the Bush family, his willingness to projects on evangelicals their most fringe views, and even said Bush initiated the Iraq war to facilitate the "end times."

He appears to have now combined his arrogance and sense of superiority with plain goofiness.

Bill Fleming said...

Sounds like you might be shooting the messenger, Troy.

Try this review:

I didn't much care for the guy's tone either, but I figured it was because he was a ... well you know...