The whole point of free speech is not to make ideas exempt from criticism but to expose them to it.

Wednesday, September 16, 2009

Is Jimmy Carter pointing at the elephant in the living room?

"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told NBC News. "I live in the South, and I've seen the South come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that shares the South's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans."

"That racism inclination still exists, and I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of belief among many white people -- not just in the South but around the country -- that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance, and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply," Carter said.

Read the full article here.


Taunia Adams said...

At least Obama hasn't been assassinated like was quietly grumbled just prior to and after the election.

I heard that comment often.

Yes, what Carter says is the glaring obvious, but is Obama's color still as relevant now as it was last winter?

I think Orly Taitz is about to get some major attention with the birth certificate stuff.

Michael Sanborn said...

Carter should go build another house. There will always be racism. Obama has proposed a health care change with no way to pay for it and which frightens many Americans of all colors.

It's not about racism, it's about reforming health care in a manner that is actually an improvement and can be paid for.

That I don't want to sack my grandchildren with a bill they'll never be able to pay for health care that may not be as good as what we have now, does not make me a racist.

Bill Fleming said...

Mike, your assertion would be a lot more credible if the protesters were just talking about Obama in the context of health care reform. But they're not. He's become the scapegoat for everything the GWB and Clinton admins did to f**k things up way before he ever got there.

And those pix of O as a witchdoctor?


Are you kidding me?

Taunia Adams said...

It's Obama as a whole, talking about everything under the sun, not just about healthcare.


Steve Sibson said...


Do you think using the race card brings unity?

And Bill, if there is no right and wrong, can racism be wrong?

(I know those wound strange, but you need to go to another thread to understand why these are important questions for Fleming to grapple with.)

Steve Sibson said...


Ellis Washington, a black columnist who I quote often, said this:

"The leitmotiv of Sunstein's entire legal philosophy and worldview is encapsulated in two very evil and failed philosophies of the past: 1) Social Darwinism [evolution], and 2) Moral Relativism – a theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them. In other words, nothing has more intrinsic value than anything else. Sunstein's ideas on judicial minimalism and behavioral economics belie the fact that for almost 30 years he has assaulted the Judeo-Christian traditions of Natural Law so venerated by the Constitution's framers to preserve America's republic.

To Sunstein ideas like "truth," "morality," "liberty," "freedom" and "Natural Law" are irrelevant and counterproductive to his grand, socialist view of law rooted in moral relativism and social Darwinism. That's how Sunstein can have a scholarship named after his dead dog while concurrently mandating environmental policies that will put tens of thousands of American farmers out of business by fostering ever expanding environmental, land and water regulations that will de facto make farming too cost-prohibitive.

What Mussolini, Stalin and Mao did in the light to harm their citizens and deny them their fundamental human rights, Cass Sunstein, as Obama's regulatory czar, will do in the night by slowly, irrevocably regulating America to death."

So if I agree with what on black man said about another black man's pick for czar, can I logically be considered a racist?

Bill Fleming said...

Steve, re: race card question.

I think it's always good for one American, or group of Americans to make it clear to their fellow Americans what it is that they find offensive, ignorant and abusive in the others' language and behavior.

Otherwise, how would they know?

It's just a matter of good, clear communication. That contributes more to Unity than anything else, I have found.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that culture is actually a product of verbal, visual, and behavioral communication.

Bob Newland said...

I think an overwhelming amount of the animosity shown towards Obama is due to the fact that he is dishonest and does not have a clue about what he is trying to do.

Or, worse yet, he might have a clue about that, and wants to do it anyway.

Bill Fleming said...

Care to be more specific, Bob?

Bob Newland said...

In Obama's speech the other night--the Joe Wilson speech--he elaborated on a health care bill that does not exist. The only thing that did exist was a provision that granted health care to illegal immigrants, and Obama did lie about that.

I don't have a problem with giving welfare to illegal immigrants; if you're gonna put money on the table for the takin', why not give it to anyone who can get to the table?

What the great health care debate is about is some rather amorphous idea of providing life and happiness (while restricting liberty) to everyone just fer bein' an American or just fer bein' in America.

It's a stupid, unworkable premise, with absolutely no smidgeon of a plan, and it will no doubt be put into practice just like that (unworkably). It will cost more money than currently exists; it will bankrupt us (as if we aren;t already bankrupt).

It will provide the basis by which other laws will be put into place punishing us for anything gummint decides is a bad habit or unhealthy lifestyle. It will end life as an American as we understand it now.

Need more specificity?

Bill Fleming said...

Bob, I took Obama's speech as him telling Congress what kind of bill he would, and would not sign. There are numerous bills in the works. I don't see any lying in that. He doesn't write the laws, he signs them. At least wait until he signs one that's different than what he says he would sign to start calling him a liar, don't you think?

And in any case, do his ideas on a health care plan justify his being depicted as Hitler and a witch doctor with a bone through his nose?

One more thing, Bob, and I don't expect you to answer it right now, just to think about it.

If someone gave you amnesty, would you still consider what you did that was supposedly a crime, criminal, and your actions illegal?

Wouldn't it be the same for people who are currently considered "illegals?" If they are granted amnesty, and then are allowed to participate in the health care plan as citizens, aren't they in fact doing so legally?

Steve Sibons said...

"It's just a matter of good, clear communication."


How is calling outspoken conservatives racists helping communications? Isn't the idea to shut us up?

Bill Fleming said...

Who is Steve Sibons?

The idea is to get you to look at yourself
and what you are doing.

Bill Fleming said...

Keep praying, Sibby.

It will come to you.

And remember, "Prayer is valuable not because it alters the circumstances and conditions of your life, but because it alters you." — James Freeman

senor citizen said...

Carter's statement was beneath a former President and showed a total lack of respect for the people he once governed. The whole protest movement is NOT because Obama is black. I am against the policies of not only Obama, but also Reid and Pelosi and other white libs. Does that make me racist against them? This is complete and utter nonsense. It is simply a way to attack dissenters and stifle us.

I am not racist. I do not use race to attack people who disagree with me. This is the strategy employed by those who are in a weak position.

And for once, I agree with Bob Newland! He is correct.

I realize that there is no way that I will convince those determined to make race an issue to stop it. But I ask them to prove it. You prove to me that Wilson's comment was race based. You prove to me that I am racist. You prove to me that 99% of the protestors are racially motivated.

Actually, maybe I am black myself. Maybe I'm Hispanic. Maybe I'm Chinese. Maybe I'm purple. Maybe I'm white. What difference does it make as far as my political stance? Actually none. I disagree or agree with policies based on the policy, not the person and certainly not his/her skin color.

Steve Sibson said...

"The idea is to get you to look at yourself and what you are doing."


The Ellis Washington quote is what I am doing...and he is black. So the mirror is on you, Obama, and the rest of the radical left. The race card? This has nothing to do about race. It has nothing to do about political parties. This is about individual freedom versus a government that wants to control every aspect of our lives.

Bill Fleming said...

Steve, you're missing the point.

What difference at all does it make to either you or me what color Ellis Washington's skin is?

Why do you even bring it up?

Are you treating him like an Uncle Tom?

Think, Sibby, think.

Bill Fleming said...

Senior Citizen, maybe you can prove it to yourself. Exactly which policies are you upset with Obama about? Just list off the top 5.

Steve Sibson said...

"Are you treating him like an Uncle Tom?"

So you are being the and the rest of the Cultural Marxists.

Bill Fleming said...

Just answer the question Steve. Why do you bring up the color of Ellis Washington's skin? It looks like cheap, transparent tokenism to me.

Bill Fleming said...

"Tokenism refers to a policy or practice of limited inclusion of members of a minority group, usually creating a false appearance of inclusive practices, intentional or not.

Typical examples in real life and fiction include purposely including a member of a minority race (such as a black character in a mainly white cast, a woman in a traditionally male universe) into a group.

Classically, token characters have some reduced capacity compared to the other characters and may have bland or inoffensive personalities so as to not be accused of stereotyping negative traits. Alternatively, their differences may be overemphasized or made "exotic" and glamorous.

Tokenism can also be used in newspapers and other media.

Newspapers will often only criticise a minority group by using a pundit from that minority group.

An asian columnist arguing that immigration is too high, or a black pundit arguing that affirmative action is wrong could be considered a token minority." — Wikipedia

Steve Sibson said...



I just posted a Walter E. Williams piece. I also post Thomas Sowell. My favorite is Star Parker. And let us not forget about Erik Rush. And Bill, you deleted an excerpt of Erik's last week. So does that make you the racist?

And Bill, I supported Alan Keyes for President.

Steve Sibson said...



Does that action provide the reason you can't think straight?

Bill Fleming said...

Steve, you're just supporting my argument. Why are you listing the names of all these people? There can only be one possible reason.

Bill Fleming said...

You might just as well leave a long list off all the black musicians you listen to, or all the black sports players, or comedians, Sibby. The answer from me will always be the same. So what? What are you trying to prove? What is your point?

Anonymous said...

Senor citizen,

"[Joe Wilson] belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina's state Capitol and denounced as a 'smear' the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the ’48 segregationist candidate for president."

Can anyone be sure Wilson is a racist? No, because we can't read hearts or minds. But there is some evidence.

Les said...

There is not a person here without a racist bone in their body. It is obvious by the tone of defense on how non racist one might be, or accusations on how someone else has all the racist symptoms. Am I? Darn right I am, racist against any SOB that walk's on the rights of others, multi racist, thats me!

Bill Fleming said...

Les, I'm pretty sure you're in a race all your own and thus, always come in first. God bless Les.

Michael Sanborn said...

In the end, there is no net positive for the Democrats or Republicans to have Carter out there calling white people racist.

I don't happen to believe Wilson's comment was racist.

It is counter productive for Obama to play the race card every time someone disagrees with him. Dissent when applied to Democrats is no more racist than when it is applied to Republicans.

senor citizen said...

Racism is the latest lib strategy to paint any anti administration protestors as so we will shut up and go away. Sorry, it ain't gonna work because we ain't racist.

Anyway, you want the top five things I'm against Obama-wise.
1. His desire for national health care and the gov't control this brings with it.
2. Cap and trade. I know McCain wants this too, but he's not in the position to push it, Obama is. BTW, a memo just surfaced that said the cost would be double of what Obama touted. So much for transparency, trust in his regime, etc.
3. Czars with no vetting and no oversight.
4. His ties with Acorn (yes, he does have them).
5. His promise of transparency, but lack of same.
6. His handling of the auto bailouts.
7. His stance on abortion.
8. His double-speak on issues of health care, etc.
9. His apologizing for America.
10. And this should be elevated higher here; his support for the legally ousted head of Honduras who was planning to illegally stay in power. (Maybe Obama wants to try this here too?!)

Well, I guess I went over 5, but I'll stop at that for now. And as you can see, not one of those has to do with whether Obama is black, white, purple, green, striped, or whatever. It has to do with his POLICIES.

Steve Sibson said...

"So what? What are you trying to prove? What is your point?"


It was Carter and you who brought up the color of Obama's skin, and now you are arguing that I am in error to bring up the color of people's skin? You are already busted for saying I am an antheist for believing in the one true God, only to be later accused of believing in more than one god. Why do you like to violate the rules of logic?

Based on Carter's logic, if a white disagrees with a black, the white is a racist. So based on that logic, Bill Fleming, a white person, deleted the comment of Erik Rush, a black person. Therefore Bill Fleming is a racist.

Again, that is Carter's logic not mine. So if you want to adopt Carter's stupidity, then you have to admit to being a racist.

And go ahead and delete this comment, as I am saving it for my own web site where I will yet again expose your radical anti-God, anti-American, and anti-family Spinoza inspired false religion where there is no right or wrong...unless Bill Fleming says it is. That is the same attitude that you find in tyrants.

And I will also point out that Mike Sanborn (if you don't understand my position, go up and read Ellis Washington)loses any credentials for the conservative wing of any organization or party for giving a misguided far-left communist revolutionary like you a platform to promote your most dangerous propaganda.

Now I will go and pray for you.

Bill Fleming said...

Thanks for sharing, Sibby. Don't be a stranger.

Bill Fleming said...

I think Steve might be upset because I wrote a comment on his blog that caused him to have to take down the whole post. Caught him fibbing again. I can't catch 'em all, nor do I want to, I guess. That would be a fools errand. But when he talks about me or Mike or Bob or the Forum, he'd better get his facts straight, or I'm gonna nail him. Every time. I'll get to his last comment here later. But first, I think senior citizen's comment is far more worthy of our first attention.

Bill Fleming said...

We'll take your argument point by point, Senior Citizen.

First your intro: "...we ain't racist..."

Nobody here (except maybe Les) claims that everyone who is protesting is racist. Not me, not Jimmy Carter, and certainly not the Obama Administration.

(Mike Sanborn please note. Obama accepted Wilson's apology and refuses to "play the race card" as you put it. That's a dishonest Rovian buzz phrase by the way. A good journalist would refuse to adopt it into his/her lexicon... I'm just sayin.)

That said, I don't see how in the world you or anyone else can look at some of the signs the protesters are using or hear some of the things they are saying, not just about Obama, but about legal and illegal immigrants as well, and fail to conclude that they are blatantly and unabashedly racist in both tone and content.

Do I really need to post some examples?

Come on, be honest. It's time.

In fact, it's way past time.

Let's be clear on this before we move on shall we?


Steve Sibson said...

"Nobody here (except maybe Les) claims that everyone who is protesting is racist. Not me, not Jimmy Carter, and certainly not the Obama Administration."

Bill, that is comple "spin" oza. Your post quoted Carter as stating, "overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man". And you called that an elephant. The animosity during three anti-big government rallies that I attended was conducted by Ron Weizcorek, a Democrat. The Sioux Falls 912 group upset him last Saturday as they tried to block his "Obama with a Hitler mustache" poster.

SO for a third time you are caught in an indefensible position, and then you try and deny that you held the position.

And by the way Sanborn is to the pro-abortion left of where I stand. And when Taunia Adams cheers in support of his position, that only confirms his overall political standing.

Bill Fleming said...

"Overwhelming portion" and "everyone" are two completely different things, Steve. But of course you don't know how to read or think, so you are once again excused.

Bill Fleming said...

Just a question to the group.

Put on your thinking caps, please.

(Not you Sib, you can stick with the tin foil.)

Who would you say is better qualified to judge whether someone was racist or not?

a.) a Nobel Peace Prize winning, octogenarian, humanitarian statesman who grew up in the Deep South.


b.) a 50 or 60 something right-wing extremist from Mitchell SD who thinks Rush Limbaugh is pretty clever when he says things like:

"I mean, let's face it, we didn't have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I'm not saying we should bring it back; I'm just saying it had its merits."

"You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray."

"Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

"They're 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?"

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back(to an African American female caller)."

More attacks on Obama include calling Obama a 'halfrican American,' saying that Obama was not black but Arab because Kenya is an Arab region, even though Arabs are less than one percent of Kenya. Since mainstream America has become more accepting of African-Americans, Limbaugh has decided to play against its new racial fears, Arabs and Muslims. Despite the fact Obama graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law school, Limbaugh has called him an 'affirmative action candidate.' Limbaugh even has repeatedly played a song on his radio show 'Barack the Magic Negro' using an antiquated Jim Crow era term for black a man who many Americans are supporting for president.

Ladies and gentlemen, Rush Limbaugh is one of Steve Sibson's favorite pundits. He quotes him on his blog almost daily.

And yet Sibby presumes to present himself here as someone who knows racism when he sees it.


I will say one thing though. His frequent appearances here are making it extremely easy for me to advance my line of argument.

senor citizen said...

I used to believe in the Peace Prize but lost all faith in that process when Gore won a Peace Prize.

Carter might have merited a Peace Prize. But that has nothing to do with the insulting speech he made the other night. He has a right to his opinion, even when it is completely wrong. But don't say that his opinion is more worthy than mine just because he at one time won a Peace Prize.

Bill Fleming said...

Why do you think it was insulting, Senior Citizen? Are you saying that there is no racism going on in the protests? Seriously?

Steve Sibson said...

"I will say one thing though. His frequent appearances here are making it extremely easy for me to advance my line of argument."

And that argument is to fabricate a charge of racism in order to knock off stride the modern day Paul Revere's who are saying "The Progressives are here" and that Obama's "change" is code word for "Communist Revolution".

Fleming's Rush Limbaugh quotes are out of context. Limbaugh's point is that the Progressive left looks at color of skin to determine status, and it is they who are racists. The Magic Negro song is about Al Sharpton saying that Obama's skin color is the main reason to support him for president. That affirmative action looks at skin color to determine entry, therefore it is racist. Fleming is pulling another "spin" oza.

Since Fleming is preoccupied with skin color, he should look at James Golden's, Limbaugh's right hand man, skin color. It is the same as Erik Rush, who said:

"Apparently, shouting at the president is objectionable, but his collectively sodomizing the American people in perpetuity is acceptable as long as it is done with a sense of decorum.

The left, including Obama cronies and members of Congress, continue to make blanket indictments of those who oppose the health-care reform legislation as racists, most recently, former President Jimmy Carter, from whom I believe Obama is trying to appropriate the title of "America's Worst President Ever." On Sept. 15, Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., a member of the treasonous Congressional Black Caucus, blabbered about "folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside" when asked about Rep. Wilson's outburst.

Attempts on the part of the political left to characterize all who oppose Obama as fringe elements and racists are among the most craven, loathsome exertions I have ever witnessed. Yet, those who insist upon playing the race card do so with impunity, since the only ones around who criticize such action are "the right-wing hate press" and fringe racists.

I pray that at least as many Americans as were represented by last weekend's protests are beginning to see the big picture – that the leadership of this Congress are rapacious oligarchs; the establishment press has become so brazen and arrogant that they no longer see any reason to disguise the fact that they are a propaganda arm of the administration; and the administration itself is lousy with vile, avaricious criminals. All of their proposals ought to be resisted, and making every effort to ensure that they find new jobs as soon as possible must be the top priority of all conscientious Americans."

James Golden's skin color is the same as Larry Elder, who said:

"Mr. Carter, please ponder the following question. Why, in 1993, did "racist" conservatives oppose President Clinton's attempt at government seizure of health care? Clinton, remember, was – and remains – white."

So you don't need to take my word for it, listen to what James Golden, Erik Rush, and Larry Elder are saying.

And don't look at Van Jones's skin color, but instead at what he has said and stands for. Then you will clearly see that Obama's "change" is nothing short of a Communist Revolution.

Bill Fleming said...

Show of hands.

Anyone here agree with Steve?

I think he's shot his best shot.

I for one have heard all I need to hear.

So, let's cut to the chase, Forumpians.

Is he right?

Or nuts?

I'll put a poll up.