The whole point of free speech is not to make ideas exempt from criticism but to expose them to it.

Thursday, July 9, 2009

Okay...Let's get it over with (Grrr)

Let's all consider this string the Great radical religious right (Grrr) string.

There has been a bit of speculation that I reside politically on the left. Here are my positions relative to religious right issues:

1. I have voted Republican in every presidential election since I was old enough to vote, which was 1973. I worked for Nixon in 1972 as a junior in High School. One exception: I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 because I thought he would do less harm than Bush or Gore. Turns out, I was right.

2. Abortion. I don't have a womb. How can I tell others what they can or cannot do with theirs? This issue, more than any other, represents the downfall of the Republican Party. NOBODY uses abortion as a casual method of birth control. Anyone who would presume to force a woman to carry to term the progeny of a rapist is just another rapist. You don't hear me discussing this topic often and you won't in the future. And, nobody will change my mind, so don't bother trying, thank you very much.

3. Gay marriage. I believe that sexual orientation is something the vast majority of gays are born to. Who would CHOOSE to be gay? There's just no percentage in it. Who would choose to subject themselves to what gays are subjected to in society? I don't care if gays marry. I don't care if they are able to file their taxes jointly. I don't care if their employers' health insurance providers are forced to treat gay spouses as heterosexual spouses. I DON'T CARE! This is yet another non-issue that represents the downfall of the GOP.

4. Prayer in public school. People can pray all they want in public school, as long as they do it privately without organizing specific denominational prayer. My prayers are between me and my God. I don't want anyone – especially the likes of Bob Fisher and Sibby – choosing my prayer, or my childrens' prayers.

5. I am particularly offended by people who say that if I don't fall lock step in line with radical religious right issues, then I am a Republican In Name Only, and not welcome in the party. Well, congratulations folks, you ruined the party and are currently utterly powerless to stop a radical left-wing madman, who's too busy spending trillions of dollars on stuff that hasn't a prayer of working and can't seem to grasp the fact that North Korea and Iran are playing tiddly-winks with nuclear weapons. Hallelujah! People finally became so sick of you that they swung so far the other direction and elected someone so obtuse he may not notice you may have brought on the entire book of Revelations! Whoopee!


Bill Fleming said...

"Who would CHOOSE to be gay?" Good point, Mike.

For that matter, who would CHOOSE to be born like me, a left-handed, color blind, fat, Irish artist?

But then we all have our crosses to bear, I suppose.

Donna said...

Bill- I am really starting to like you......

John said...


I was totally with you until "radical left-wing madman." That's where you lost me. Otherwise it was a good post.

Bill Fleming said...

John, Mike is a part-time comedian. If he really felt that way, he wouldn't have invited me to write here.

But just curious, which word didn't you like? Radical, left-wing, or madman?

My wince came at the word "obtuse."

But whatever.

I'll talk to Mike about it backchannel right after I get done looking it up.

Bob Ellis said...

Do you need a womb to know that infanticide is murder? Do you need a womb to know that prostitution is wrong? Do you need to have a penis to know that rape is wrong? Do you realize how silly that whole line of argument is?

Further, the statistics on abortion prove beyond a shadow of a doubt how woefully ignorant you are on why abortions are performed. "NOBODY uses abortion as a casual method of birth control." Really? The latest statistics from the SD Department of Health show 83.2% of the abortions in SD were performed because "The mother did not desire to have the child." Rape and incest? 1.7%. (And the child killed in an abortion didn't commit any crime) And those figures don't change much from year to year. You can remain obstinately cloistered in your ignorance if you insist, but meanwhile reality goes on unimpaired.

You believe people are born homosexual? That's based on the massive scientific evidence for that contention, right? Well, I guess not, since there isn't any. Not even a "gay gene" despite decades of diligent efforts to find one. You can go ahead and ignore the strong evidence (as you ignore the abortion evidence) that homosexual orientation is the result of various environmental factors especially when one is younger, and quite often as a result of childhood molestation, but again, reality is passing you by outside your fortress of willful ignorance. And you may not care if the most important institution in any society (i.e. marriage) is counterfeited, but you shouldn't care either if the currency we use as legal tender is counterfeited, or if someone passes off a genuine Rolex to you when it's a cheap imitation, or anything else for that matter. I wonder if, in exchange for the work you do, you're just as happy to be paid in pine needles as with genuine U.S. currency. Marriage--genuine marriage--has incalculable value to society and to every person in society--especially children who depend on the stability of the institution for healthy development.

Prayer in school...we had it for all but the last 50 years or so of our 233-year history, and the planet didn't plunge into the sun, the republic didn't crumble, we didn't slip into a theocracy, and people weren't forced to worship another religion. Why? Because the First Amendment guarantees the right to freedom of religious expression. Children don't give up that right when they enter a school, any more than our representatives in congress give it up when they enter congressional chambers...and begin the session with a prayer as we have done for 200 years.

You might salve your own mind with your self-deceptive talk of "I can still be a Republican and embrace a lot of liberal positions, too" drivel, but you're the only person being fooled. You might want to take a look at the widely published Republican principles, and of the Republican Party platform of both our state and our national party; you'll find that they don't include your liberal positions, and they hold in high esteem many of the things you seem to loathe.

If you want to join our party because some parts of our platform match up with a few areas that are near and dear to you (presumably fiscal ones), feel free. You're welcome to come alongside us and work for the advancement of those conservative ideals. But if you insist on holding onto your liberal ideas, please do everyone a favor and don't try to pass yourself off as a solid Republican who fully supports the party, and especially don't work against us on the other conservative planks of our platform that you don't agree with. You don't have to support them if you don't want to, but don't trash-talk them because they also make up a critical part of the Republican platform.

You're entitled to believe whatever liberal nonsense you want, but when a liberal tries to pass himself off as a solid Republican, it's deceptive, misleading, and essentially attempts to counterfeit what Republicans really stand for: conservative values.

lexrex said...

you know, ms -- with all due respect -- bob has a valid point. you can't join a golf club and complain when they play golf.

that stuff about marriage, abortion, and religion -- some of it goes all the way back to beginning of the party. some of it didn't need to be in the party platform, because we had laws on the books in the several states that precluded the need for a reaction in the party platform.

but never before, has the republican party stood for abortion rights, gay marriage, or the liberal version of "separation of church and state." not sure what standing you have, today, to say that it should -- or even remain silent on those issues. the party is what it is.

of course, if you believe that a party's platform, or an organization's charter, or a company's mission statement don't matter, then i'd say you are correct. is that what you're saying -- that the platform doesn't matter?

i'm happy to be a fellow member of the republican party with you. i'm sure we agree on a few things. but don't get upset when i publicly act out the party's platform.

Neal said...

Bob Ellis and his type are the Democrat party's best friend.

Michael Sanborn said...

I'm not going to beat my head against the wall explaining myself here.

Bob and Carl: We disagree. You're not going to convince me I'm wrong and I'm not interested in being scolded about how stupid I am for coming to the conclusions I've come to. I've heard it all before. All of it.

I don't have to defend my Republican credentials to anyone, especially you, Mr. Ellis.

I was in the Republican Party long before you folks "adopted" us via Jerry Falwell, and his so-called "moral majority" then "killed" us. You're neither moral, and certainly are not in the majority. Obama proved that handily.

lexrex said...

good luck bowling at the golf club, ms.

Michael Sanborn said...

How many children from unwanted pregnancies have your families adopted? How many children born of a rape has someone from your family adopted?

Will your children bow their heads in public school on Hebrew prayer day? Hindu prayer day? Muslim prayer day? LDS prayer day? Buddhist prayer day? Catholic prayer day? Well?

You guys aren't about Freedom of Religion. You're about imposing your religious views on everyone else. And if you think that's what Jefferson had in mind, you're reading pretty selectively.

Michael Sanborn said...

Exactly the problem lexrex. We were golfing just fine with a near scratch handicap until the radical right showed up with their bowling balls.

lexrex said...

then we'll just go away, ms. no sweat off my back.

Neal said...

No sweat off your back, lex? Really? You're content to be an ultra-minority party for the forseeable future?

caheidelberger said...

[Gee, Bob, your comment was 683 words long. Obviously invalid. "Why don't you try lightening up and just be a man." ;-)]

Seriously, Michael, you'll have a hard time winning the argument with the far-right ideologues. But as I've said before, I welcome a Republican schism, since it gives us Dems time to govern. Keep it up!

Carl LaFong said...

I never said anything.

lexrex said...

i was referring to this blog, and letting you guys bowl by yourselves.

my point to ms is that just about since he has been voting, the republican party has been against abortion. it has been in the platform ever since roe v. wade.

yet, when we pro-lifers actually live out the platform, he gets upset. just doesn't make sense to me. but oh well.

Neal said...

I'm not sure what you mean by "you guys." I'm neither a R or a D, and my silence should not imply consent with Mr. Sanborn's positions, or anyone else's.

You don't seem the type to take your ball and go home like that, lex.

Bill Fleming said...

Well, Neal, as for me, it's like Will Rogers said, "I don't belong to any organized political party I'm a Democrat."

Taunia Adams said...

I like this post most of all, so far.

I haven't seen anyone hit a homer like that in awhile. That was like 10 homers in one.

MS, you rule. Will you marry me? (My husband won't mind. Much.)

Michael Sanborn said...


A gracious thank you. But you are in Missouri with your husband and I am South Dakota with my wife (of 34 years). She would mind. Much.

Thirty-four years....sheese! With all those gays running around and all that lack of prayer in school and so on, the American family is supposed to have been wrecked. Wonder what happened to mine?

Bill Fleming said...

Mike, Bob and lexrex,

I know quite few other Republicans who have roughly the same set of social values as Mike describes here. One of the more astute among them (Yale, Harvard, Politician, etc.) describes himself as a "Goldwater Republican."

There are others who describe themselves as "Libertarian Republicans."

There are others who describe themselves as "Moderate Republicans."

And for the most part, I don't hear them making much fuss about who's a real Republican and who's not. Maybe that's because bottom line they don't really look at their political party membership as the be all and end all of their existence.

Bottom line, I think those people understand the function of a political party to be much the same as I do — to win elections. Period.

I mean hey, it's not like being a Red Sox fan or something is it?

Or a Coca Cola customer?

Neal said...

I hate to nitpick here, MS, but it's the book of Revelation, not RevelationS.

Michael Sanborn said...


noted. I'm from the first book.