The whole point of free speech is not to make ideas exempt from criticism but to expose them to it.

Friday, August 21, 2009

Medicare anyone?

Hey Gordon Howie, remember when we were trying to decide which idea to discuss regarding health care reform?

Well, you can't beat this one for simplicity;

George McGovern nails it.

Excerpt: "I would have written a bill that said, 'We hereby extend Medicare to all Americans.' That would have been my solution. At least the public would understand it," McGovern said this week."

So Gordon, talk to us...


Taunia Adams said...

I have several ideas on what Mr. Howie's response(s) will be.

I will respectfully await his answer.

Gordon Howie said...

I can't help but wonder if this "simple bill" would also include free health care for all illegal aliens,have a gov't imposed fee on ALL private insurance plans, restrict enrollment of special needs people, include end-of-life counseling,impose a 2 1/2% tax on anyone not having "acceptable" health care, audit the books of all employers that self-insure, creates a committee that decides what treatment you get, gives the governmnet direct access to your bank accounts, allow the gov't to run health care like Social Security (as in bankrupt)... oh, there I go again :-)

Taunia Adams said...

I have 10 minutes to respond, dinner plans, heregoes:

"include free health care for all illegal aliens" - illegal aliens are what is paying Social Security now and keeping it afloat. They're paying in.

"have a gov't imposed fee on ALL private insurance plans" - Medicare doesn't have an imposed fee on any private plans.

"restrict enrollment of special needs people" - we have enrollment already for special needs persons - it's called Medicaid and Medicare.

"include end-of-life counseling" - we already have hospice.

"impose a 2 1/2% tax on anyone not having "acceptable" health care" - if everyone has access to the same, huh?

"audit the books of all employers that self-insure' - like I said before, all businesses are already subject to an audit at any time, non sequitor.

"creates a committee that decides what treatment you get" -

"gives the governmnet direct access to your bank accounts" - my gut reaction is this the good old Bush doctrine of ruling by fear. Second, it IS the good old Bush doctrine, wherein if you're considered a terrorist, the FBI gets to wiretap and search your crap anyway. You don't think they already have access?

"allow the gov't to run health care like Social Security" - let's see...who was it that traded Universal Health Care for Star Wars? Was Ronny wrong? Social Security wouldn't have been bankrupt without him. Thanks, Ron.

Regardless, private health care is 1) not accessible to everyone 2) costly 3) controlled by the rich (those able to afford healthcare) and the government at this time ALSO. Can you say Medicaid and Medicare?

Au revoir!

Michael Sanborn said...

Actually, McGovern proposed this several years ago on some tv news program. Then, he said he would gradually extend Medicare coverage by adding people at both ends of the age spectrum until it reached the middle.

Year 1: Those 55 and older and those from infancy to 5 would be covered.

Year 5: Those 45 and older and those from infancy to 15 would be covered...and so on.

I have for many years thought George McGovern was not the brightest guy on the block. However, this approach makes a good deal more sense than anything I've heard from either party.

The election demonstrated that the people want a change in health care.

Gordon's response is what should be expected. I'm not happy about any of the health care "solutions" but I also recognize that my party lost the election.

Republicans will be powerless for many many years if they don't change their perspective and tone. It's my party too, and I'm often ashamed of the party's unwillingness to come to the table with viable alternatives to a problem the voters have clearly identified as something on which they want the government to show some leadership.

Gordon Howie said...

I guess the best thing I can say is.... That's a great picture of George!!
I would simply explore more private solutions, those on the left want government solutions. once again, I think it's a wrap!

Bob Ellis said...

Yes, they'll all understand this unconstitutional, socialist program that is going bankrupt.

With liberal "solutions" like these, who needs enemies?

Neal said...

Gordon said,
"I would simply explore more private solutions, those on the left want government solutions."

Those on the left want solutions, not necessarily government solutions.

It's just that the private sector has failed to deliver them.

But rest assured, Gordon will keep exploring.

Bill Fleming said...

Not so fast, Gordo, stick around, will ya? I think the answers to most of your questions are in McGovern's statement. Sounds to me like the model is Medicare, as it is now, only allow everyone to have it. Maybe a good start here would be to review what Medicare is, how it works, etc.

Unless of course, Gordon, you're saying that you think Medicare should be eliminated altogether, even in its current form. Are you saying that?

Anyway, let's assune not. Let's assume that you're ok with Medicare as it is now.

here's the situation.

Notice, the eligibility requirement (no illegals allowed), the way you pay into it, the deductables, the lack of death panels, audits, etc, etc.

All of your questions are irrelevant. They are about HR3200, not Medicare. Medicare doesn't have any of that stuff in it. And I didn't hear McGovern suggesting that it should. I just heard him saying, let's take Medicare, because people understand it, and make it available to everybody.

Seems to me that would greatly expand both the number of people paying in and the risk pool which should also benefit from an infusion of younger healthier clients. Could help fix the medicare funding problem.

And there's nothing that says if you have Medicare, you can't also have private insurance is there? I know my mom did. I say to it. I think a lot of people do that.

So, seriously, Gordon, why dismiss this out of hand? Seems like it's worth a look to me.

And Ellis, what are you talking about? Do you bring your brain with you when you come over here or just your mouth?

I don't know if you've noticed Bob, but people on this blog like to think. If you're up for that, jump right in. But don't expect any of us to have much patience with your empty headed platitudes.

Gordon Howie said...

OK, let's just use the McGovern solution. (now it would be fair to call me disiengenuous) If my friend, Bob Ellis, (who is a very intellegent guy, by the way) also agrees, will he no longer be empty-headed, and be using his brain enstead of just his mouth? I think having coffee with you has always been fun. I think it always will be. Blogging with your friends.. not so much fun, and not very productive. Call me when you have time for a cup of coffee :-)

Neal said...

Gordon asks a question like "when did you stop beating your wife?" and then when we refuse to answer it he accuses everyone else of interfering with the productivity of the conversation.

Just so everyone is clear, that's what's happening here.

I'm all for making progress, Gordon. But the only thing that you'll consider to be "progress," it seems, is a dialogue that leads only to your desired conclusions.

Like I said before, the only discussion worth having with you is this: is healthcare a right or a privilege?

We already know your answer, of course, but perhaps you could offer up some spirited defense of it, rather than persist with the red herrings.

I mean, why should we bother to talk about your "private solutions" when you likely don't even think there's a problem to be fixed?

Bill Fleming said...

Gordon, great, Let's start with the Medicare construct then, and see where the conversation goes.

And as for Mr. Ellis, I'll take your word for it that he is intelligent, and additionally, I'll (generously) presume he also has a sense of humor.

My hope is that he will see fit to demonstrate a little of each when he posts here.

Or do you think that would be asking too much?

Taunia Adams said...

And people were whining about Herseth shutting down when being confronted about this situation.

Shutting Howie down wasn't nearly as difficult.

What did we gain from this experience? Pretty much what Neal said in previous posts.

Universal Health Care, in ANY form, will never be advocated by Gordon Howie, much to his constituents dismay.

"When did you stop beating your wife?" One of my favs.

Randall said...

I'm always amused when the conservative side sites "unconstitutionality"

Both Barack Obama and Joe Biden TEACH constitutional law at the college level.

What is it you think YOU know about constitutional law that THEY don't?