tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post8868123315747578379..comments2023-09-25T03:57:22.736-06:00Comments on The Decorum Forum: The Smoking Gun...Bob Newlandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-45710998379036992772010-02-21T18:54:45.415-07:002010-02-21T18:54:45.415-07:00Yup, Wayne. The long knives are out and the necks ...Yup, Wayne. The long knives are out and the necks red as a rained on Rhode Island roosters.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-85490271958410120362010-02-21T18:31:49.979-07:002010-02-21T18:31:49.979-07:00I don't think you really mean that, Wayne.I don't think you really mean that, Wayne.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-18310249317444856772010-02-21T16:25:31.025-07:002010-02-21T16:25:31.025-07:00After reviewing all of the comments here, I have t...After reviewing all of the comments here, I have to say that you guys are starting to make RR's stuff on Blogmore look civilized and enlightening.Wayne Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636917161607613500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-46774811001099807532010-02-21T16:19:57.820-07:002010-02-21T16:19:57.820-07:00As I just posted on the "There Will Be Blood&...As I just posted on the "There Will Be Blood" thread, it's startin' to look like I was wrong again about the landfill issue. It is getting to the point where Mayor Hanks and Mr. Ellis need to publicly respond in a comprehensive way.Wayne Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636917161607613500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-7889117559720689522010-02-21T08:15:18.560-07:002010-02-21T08:15:18.560-07:00p.s. Taunia, sorry you have to watch Bob and I do ...p.s. Taunia, sorry you have to watch Bob and I do our housekeeping. Come back when we're done vacuuming.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-59303380665766509422010-02-21T07:33:14.724-07:002010-02-21T07:33:14.724-07:00Taunia, ummm... yeah. That Cornhole thing in Pierr...Taunia, ummm... yeah. That Cornhole thing in Pierre in June.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-48466521843293101492010-02-21T06:02:12.739-07:002010-02-21T06:02:12.739-07:00And for crissakes...isn't there ANYTHING else ...And for crissakes...isn't there ANYTHING else going on in the world?Taunianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-43281708488370497642010-02-21T06:01:13.452-07:002010-02-21T06:01:13.452-07:00You're both acting like condescending twits.
...You're both acting like condescending twits.<br /><br />Take it elsewhere, kids. <br /><br />You're both contributors here, yet you're both doing exactly what you'd knock others' heads around for. <br /><br />Go on to the next topic.Taunianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-53178970655514999142010-02-21T04:05:19.696-07:002010-02-21T04:05:19.696-07:00Mike, if Sam was the one who brought the landfill ...Mike, if Sam was the one who brought the landfill issue to light, good for him. As Frankenfeld says, that would make him a hero.<br /><br />But it doesn't necessarily follow that the rest of the council and the mayor, and the council before that, and the mayor before that were all either negligent or somehow in on the deal.<br /><br />That kind of sounds like blaming the victims to me.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-80962040853045448852010-02-21T03:48:31.361-07:002010-02-21T03:48:31.361-07:00Yes, there are some parallels, Bob.
A couple of d...Yes, there are some parallels, Bob.<br /><br />A couple of days ago, you presumed to know what I was thinking and wrote "my opinion" for me on a blog. <br /><br />I reminded you that I will write what I think and don't need you to do it for me. You crossed a line with me by trying to put words in my mouth and I corrected you. <br /><br />In this case, you have become angry and agitated and are wanting to identify me as the cause of your anger. I'm not. If you're angry, it's because you choose to be. <br /><br />In both cases, you seem to be having a problem with boundaries. I don't own, or know, or control your mind, and neither do you mine. Your issues with me lately are simply two sides of the same coin.<br /><br />I request that you don't try give me ownership of your head, Bob. And that you don't try to own mine. If you honor that request, we'll get along a lot better.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-74983569273937578482010-02-20T22:27:22.046-07:002010-02-20T22:27:22.046-07:00"He's pissing himself off and blaming it ..."He's pissing himself off and blaming it on me."<br /><br />As I recall a couple of days ago you nearly pissed your pants when I made a similar observation about you.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-2450615787768568542010-02-20T22:01:57.374-07:002010-02-20T22:01:57.374-07:00What is clear to me, is that the censure thing was...What is clear to me, is that the censure thing was designed to divert attention away from the city's incompetence in investigating the landfill, until a thorough investigation was demanded (by Kooiker and Weifenbach). And, then it appears the state Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI) was needed to get to the bottom of it. Our professional investigators (the police department) were not brought in until the Kooiker and Weifenbach demand. Things appeared to have moved swiftly after the police and DCI became involved.Michael Sanbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06523147171085428754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-16762276328466227452010-02-20T21:57:36.866-07:002010-02-20T21:57:36.866-07:00Bill,
This topic and the censure topic are one in...Bill,<br /><br />This topic and the censure topic are one in the same. The censure came about after the landfill thing was exposed.<br /><br />The source of the landfill investigation (Kooiker and Weifenbach) didn't come out until Ellis had to produce 1000 pages of emails referred to in the resolution to confirm they existed. <br /><br />The 1000 pages of emails were part of the resolution to censure. When Kooiker's attorney demanded them, they had to produce them, and they had to produce all of them because they knew Kooiker had them.<br /><br />But, they wouldn't be public record before the city produced them. So, the malarkey about Ellis screaming about emailing being a public forum, what just that, malarkey.<br /><br />And, yes, Ellis was at the hearing and spoke glowingly about what a swell employee Sagen is. So did Preston. So did former, fired in disgrace, public works director Dirk Jablonski.<br /><br />The one thing you're correct about Bill is that we don't know the whole story yet.<br /><br />The Journal teased it in today's paper for Sunday's paper, saying that their Sunday story would reveal that Hanks and Ellis have known about the deal at the landfill for some time (years) and chose to do nothing.<br /><br />Why would they do that? There are two possible reasons I can come up with:<br /><br />1. They were in on it.<br />2. They were negligent.<br /><br />I don't know which it is. I suspect we'll know more when indictments are made public.<br /><br />Maybe there are more reasons. Cynic that I am, I can't come up with any.Michael Sanbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06523147171085428754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-51668811742394465222010-02-20T21:32:33.787-07:002010-02-20T21:32:33.787-07:00Newland would do well to learn to own his feelings...Newland would do well to learn to own his feelings. I'm not pissing him off. I CAN'T piss him off. He's pissing himself off and blaming it on me. Bad form.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-47985676020845008712010-02-20T21:18:34.037-07:002010-02-20T21:18:34.037-07:00Don't be rude, Bob.Don't be rude, Bob.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-55363733547514878642010-02-20T19:04:37.512-07:002010-02-20T19:04:37.512-07:00Bill, it's all the same topic. And I'm don...Bill, it's all the same topic. And I'm done dancing in a circle with you. What's obvious to everyone else is obvious to you, and you're pissing me off.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-36101147563635742462010-02-20T15:07:33.392-07:002010-02-20T15:07:33.392-07:00Bob says, "I know for sure that they put on a...Bob says, "I know for sure that they put on a charade at which the principal complainant did not appear."<br /><br />Are you talking about Sagan, Bob? That's a different issue than the landfill topic here, isn't it? Or are you lumping the whole thing together?<br /><br />By the way, was Ellis at the Censure meeting?Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-64486392250937281562010-02-20T14:52:51.031-07:002010-02-20T14:52:51.031-07:00I'd say it's a fairly hot topic among Rapi...I'd say it's a fairly hot topic among Rapid Citians. It's hard to assess the accuracy of that statement.<br /><br />The Rapid City Journal has devoted extensive space to the topic, but it has also avoided important issues pertinent to the topic.<br /><br />There's no question in my mind that it has grated on certain sensitive nerves.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-17804735819983626962010-02-20T14:41:09.026-07:002010-02-20T14:41:09.026-07:00I haven't formed an opinion about the situatio...I haven't formed an opinion about the situation. I'm just questioning responses that have been posted here on both sides. It has no bearing on me or I on it.<br /><br />Is all of RC buzzing about this or is it many topical for the blogs? <br /><br />I'm really waiting for someone to pick up the story about the Down's Syndrome woman who played the animated character on "Family Guy" who told Sarah Palin to quit carrying her own Down Syndrome kid around like a shield. Or as the actor said, " like a loaf of French bread wanting sympathy and votes."Taunianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-24282592173162573222010-02-20T14:15:05.620-07:002010-02-20T14:15:05.620-07:00I know for sure that they put on a charade at whic...I know for sure that they put on a charade at which the principal complainant did not appear.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-11072341178964563702010-02-20T13:54:20.175-07:002010-02-20T13:54:20.175-07:00Again, I'm sorry, but I don't see threats ...Again, I'm sorry, but I don't see threats and intimidation in these emails. I see Ellis answering Sam's questions in detail and warning everyone to be careful what they write in emails that become public record.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-51410360967760820142010-02-20T13:48:44.190-07:002010-02-20T13:48:44.190-07:00Do you know for sure that they didn't, Bob?Do you know for sure that they didn't, Bob?Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-3450973372925727942010-02-20T13:32:48.553-07:002010-02-20T13:32:48.553-07:00In your scenario, I suggest that I might (as the m...In your scenario, I suggest that I might (as the mayor, the city attorney, a public services manager) call Sam and say, "We are investigating the matter. We know a crime has been committed. If you'll give us a few days (weeks) we'll prepare a case, but public pronouncements could compromise the case. We'll keep you posted on our progress. Will you lay low for a while?"<br /><br />That might have worked better than the threats and intimidation.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-66086547568524435862010-02-20T12:58:59.843-07:002010-02-20T12:58:59.843-07:00Couple of things. First, for Taunia, here's th...Couple of things. First, for Taunia, here's the article in the RCJ detailing the nature and particulars of the case:<br /><br />http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_d67e3b30-f424-11de-876c-001cc4c03286.html<br /><br />Next, the question becomes "who knew what when?"<br /><br />Next, hypothetically for us all... suppose you suspected one of your employees of criminal wrong doing but didn't as yet have sufficient evidence to act on it.<br /><br />Someone asks you in a public email about the case. <br /><br />How would you answer?<br /><br />Finally, why are we able to look at these emails. Aren't they part of the evidence?<br /><br />I know that by my not jumping on the bandwagon here and demanding the heads of all the people who voted to censure Sam, in addition to the mayor, who didn't vote on the issue, it could look like I'm taking a side against Kooiker. <br /><br />I'm not. I would characterize my position as neutral. Watching. Listening. Asking questions.<br /><br />Someday we'll know some of the answers. <br /><br />To me it seems like that's not today.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-89053812811499176432010-02-20T10:53:38.374-07:002010-02-20T10:53:38.374-07:00If you try to talk to anybody who really knows all...If you try to talk to anybody who really knows all the details on this, chances are you'll get the "I can't talk about this because it's an ongoing investigation" response. That said, there are other possible scenarios besides the one presented here, having to do with the nature of investigative police work and Sam's "need to know."Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.com