tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post1184635075475427037..comments2023-09-25T03:57:22.736-06:00Comments on The Decorum Forum: You think medical care is expensive now...Bob Newlandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-89035394126237200312009-10-21T11:01:18.761-06:002009-10-21T11:01:18.761-06:00And you seem blind to the fact that I don't ad...And you seem blind to the fact that I don't advocate ANY kind of socialism -- fascist or communist (the differences are mere semantics anyway).<br /><br />I hate the corporate pigs as much as you do. They are, in fact the principle enemy. The politicians, cops and soldiers are merely their thugs.<br /><br />Medical care as administered today in a never-never land of government/physician sludge is a failure. The programs proposed by the politicians will not only be a failure; they'll be a disastrously expensive failure.<br /><br />Suggesting that tax dollars will be diverted from foreign imperialistic adventures to treating AIDS patients is disingenuous, because you know that will not happen.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-41436989783537223672009-10-21T10:10:19.854-06:002009-10-21T10:10:19.854-06:00Bob seems blind to his philosophy advocating for t...Bob seems blind to his philosophy advocating for the tyranny of the dollar bill. He seems happy to let big corporate steal money right out of his pocket. Just as long as they don't get all "communist" about it and try to give it to someone else.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-6306474207290680122009-10-21T10:06:11.639-06:002009-10-21T10:06:11.639-06:00As long as you're being "absolutist"...As long as you're being "absolutist" about it, Bob,<br />I'd rather spend my tax dollars helping people stay well inside our borders than to send them off to die in foreign countries, killing others while they're at it.<br /><br />Let's see if we can get more reasonable, shall we?Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-82663216095083882092009-10-21T10:02:14.823-06:002009-10-21T10:02:14.823-06:00And that's for folks who have served in an arm...And that's for folks who have served in an armed force with the possibility of being blown up for Exxon.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-88146239573774717022009-10-21T10:00:30.163-06:002009-10-21T10:00:30.163-06:00VA quality? You mean where they give you buckets o...VA quality? You mean where they give you buckets of tranquilizers and pain-killers and stonewall you on treatment hoping you'll die before they have to actually do something meaningful for you?Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-86965789802407017472009-10-21T09:57:38.566-06:002009-10-21T09:57:38.566-06:00Cory, treatment X is rationed today. It is either ...Cory, treatment X is rationed today. It is either available to only those who can afford it, or to those who reap the luck of the draw (organ transplant availability, for example) and can afford it.<br /><br />Under socialized medicine (single payer, whatever), treatment x will be rationed by bureaucrats, under some formula combined with whim. The bureaucrats will be the ones we will have to bribe to get treatment.<br /><br />Much in life is unfair; most, in fact. Some of us are blessed with unreasonably good health despite a dissipant lifestyle; others with poor health despite what should have been a healthy lifestyle. <br /><br />To what extent should the public as a whole expend finite resources on an endless problem that will expand faster than it is funded?Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-24543989463326707172009-10-21T09:53:34.008-06:002009-10-21T09:53:34.008-06:00Ok, so how 'bout we upgrade it to VA quality? ...Ok, so how 'bout we upgrade it to VA quality? (...although the prison scenario is light years better than some people have now.)<br /><br />By the way, no one's saying you have to CHOOSE this option, or that you can't by your own supplimental policy. That's probably what Bob would do... you know... to protect the free market and all... and to cover his liposuction.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-89222207531551210962009-10-21T09:50:06.283-06:002009-10-21T09:50:06.283-06:00...see what I mean? Crabby....see what I mean? Crabby.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-11142125082088362302009-10-21T09:47:52.235-06:002009-10-21T09:47:52.235-06:00Okay, so Fleming's on record as supporting -- ...Okay, so Fleming's on record as supporting -- for everyone -- the same "right" to "medical care" as enjoyed by prisoners. That sounds great.<br /><br />If you want to go to a doctor, you put in a request. Then you're taken in handcuffs to a prison-approved doctor, who gives you the absolute minimum of the absolutely worst level of medical attention possible.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-73066011044588597082009-10-21T09:27:28.963-06:002009-10-21T09:27:28.963-06:00I submit that the fundamental "right" to...I submit that the fundamental "right" to health care is the same right as prisoners in Federal penitentiaries have. Those standards are probably spelled out somewhere, and probably don't include liposuction, facelifts or MRI's for hangnails. That's just Newland being crabby.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-18502867550332150682009-10-21T07:12:19.363-06:002009-10-21T07:12:19.363-06:00...darned consistency...
Mr. Newland, I struggle ......darned consistency...<br /><br />Mr. Newland, I struggle with defining that right as well. But whatever that right might be, if it exists, it seems to lie latent in your comment about rationing. I take it you don't like the prospect of rationing. Am I correct? If so, I take it that if we socialize medicine (yes, please!), and you go to the hospital to get Treatment X, and the hospital says, "Sorry, we're rationing Treatment X; you can't have it today," you'll say, "That's not fair!" If I'm correct about your position, on what basis would you declare that rationing unfair?caheidelbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03261598066395322681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-89399467000707758212009-10-20T18:56:03.761-06:002009-10-20T18:56:03.761-06:00Ellis, that's not what socialism is.Ellis, that's not what socialism is.Bill Fleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08319507693205848772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-79681591605979872912009-10-20T13:05:25.906-06:002009-10-20T13:05:25.906-06:00Cory, I'm asking if we have a "right"...Cory, I'm asking if we have a "right" to medical care. If so, define "medical care."Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-59098573161297205852009-10-20T12:58:00.407-06:002009-10-20T12:58:00.407-06:00Since I have a consistent political philosophy, it...Since I have a consistent political philosophy, it is natural that I would intersect philosophically with even a stopped philosophical clock twice a day.Bob Newlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388226473052858297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-28742734423067868892009-10-20T12:56:20.256-06:002009-10-20T12:56:20.256-06:00Hold on, Bob Newland. You mention—negatively, it a...Hold on, Bob Newland. You mention—negatively, it appears—the idea that health care is a right. But then you appear to bemoan that socialized medicine would resort to rationing. It sounds like you're saying we have a right to health care, and that it would be wrong to impose rationing to take away any of it. Can you clarify?caheidelbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03261598066395322681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2123919364122433432.post-32310339400500371222009-10-20T12:38:31.820-06:002009-10-20T12:38:31.820-06:00As stunning as it was for me, I actually agree wit...As stunning as it was for me, I actually agree with most everything you said here. (Are you pulling my leg).<br /><br />My only disagreement is with your last paragraph, and the disagreement is relatively minor.<br /><br />We didn't "socialize" roads and bridges and national defense. Socialism involves the taking of property from one individual and giving it to other specific individuals; our road system and national defense benefits <em>everyone</em>. Further and more importantly, they are constitutionally-authorized functions of government, whereas government charity and a government health care system are not.<br /><br />Also, while the road system and national defense are rather large, they are relatively insignificant when compared to the 50% or more of our budget that goes to pay for unconstitutional social programs.<br /><br />But other than that, great piece!Bob Ellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10413354616356999953noreply@blogger.com